In both scenarios, the Enclave beats the crap out of every faction there is in the East Coast Wasteland being virtually unopposed and untouchable. The best the Institute can do is hide away underground, though seeing how the Enclave would have pre-war records of things like the CIT, I think they would be able to figure out the Institute location. And if necessary, bombard it from orbit into oblivion.The Enclave need not even sully its hands with ground troops, but can pretty much copy its OTL 'The Project' plan, by raiding Vault 87 for the FEV samples it needs to create its super-strain to be released into the jetstream and kill off all mutants and wastelanders.Only in Scenario 2 would the Enclave have to deal with the problem of the East Coast BoS being around to stop them. Though seeing how much trouble the East Coast BoS had with Eden's Remnants of the Enclave, I wouldn't bet on them being able to do well against the Enclave in all its might. They don't even have a tanker to get to the oil rig, and without a FOB, their vertibirds probably won't get there either. In both scenarios, the Enclave beats the crap out of every faction there is in the East Coast Wasteland being virtually unopposed and untouchable. The best the Institute can do is hide away underground, though seeing how the Enclave would have pre-war records of things like the CIT, I think they would be able to figure out the Institute location.
And if necessary, bombard it from orbit into oblivion.The Enclave need not even sully its hands with ground troops, but can pretty much copy its OTL 'The Project' plan, by raiding Vault 87 for the FEV samples it needs to create its super-strain to be released into the jetstream and kill off all mutants and wastelanders.Only in Scenario 2 would the Enclave have to deal with the problem of the East Coast BoS being around to stop them. Though seeing how much trouble the East Coast BoS had with Eden's Remnants of the Enclave, I wouldn't bet on them being able to do well against the Enclave in all its might. They don't even have a tanker to get to the oil rig, and without a FOB, their vertibirds probably won't get there either. Scenario 1: The Commonwealth gets taken over easily.
The only real threat is the Minutemen who at best would slow them down.Scenario 2: While the Enclave still have a chance it's diminished significantly. There's isn't much stopping the Institute from easily infiltrating the Enclave and paranoia and unrest would go a long way in greatly weakening them.
This isn't to mention an incoming BoS who at this point is extremely unified, well supplied in both men and weapon, who also have a flight advantage. And they would no doubt send in reinforcements once they realized that not only is the Institute there, but their mortal enemies as well.
Click to expand.It's been awhile since I played Fallout 2, but I don't recall the Enclave in Fallout 2 have orbital bombardment. Beside there's no indication that carpet bombing them wouldn't even work.They are located deep beneath the C.I.T. Ruins and the only reason you were able to blow up their base was because you blew up their Nuclear Reactor from within.Furthermore, it doesn't matter if the Enclave knew where the pre-war CIT was located because1. They don't know that the Institute is compose of C.I.T. Survivors, they have knowledge of them.2.
Most importantly, Fallout 4 made it abundantly clear that they would still need to use molecular relay to easily reach them. That or they would have to do a massive expedition project under the ruins of C.I.T. Just to have a chance at finding them. Click to expand.Yeah, an altruistic BoS compose of mostly new untrain and unskilled recruits, spread thin throughout the Capital Wasteland, with poorly maintain prewar weapons, and at an internal civil war with veteran deserters, had trouble with the Enclave remnant. The BoS in Fallout 4 on the other hand isn't hinder by the problems that the BoS in Fallout 3 did. In fact I would argue that the BoS in Fallout 4 is the best the BoS has ever been in any Fallout game (don't know about 76 since I never played it).
They are developing new weapons and armor rather than just hoarding pre-war ones, they get a constant supply of skilled recruits due to the sponsored program, and while they are nowhere near as nice as the BoS were under Lyon, they are still far more altruistic than the BoS were during 1 and 2 so they would be at least somewhat supported by the citizens of the Capital Wasteland. Scenario 1: The Commonwealth gets taken over easily. The only real threat is the Minutemen who at best would slow them down.Scenario 2: While the Enclave still have a chance it's diminished significantly. There's isn't much stopping the Institute from easily infiltrating the Enclave and paranoia and unrest would go a long way in greatly weakening them. This isn't to mention an incoming BoS who at this point is extremely unified, well supplied in both men and weapon, who also have a flight advantage. And they would no doubt send in reinforcements once they realized that not only is the Institute there, but their mortal enemies as well.It's been awhile since I played Fallout 2, but I don't recall the Enclave in Fallout 2 have orbital bombardment. Beside there's no indication that carpet bombing them wouldn't even work.They are located deep beneath the C.I.T.
Ruins and the only reason you were able to blow up their base was because you blew up their Nuclear Reactor from within.Furthermore, it doesn't matter if the Enclave knew where the pre-war CIT was located because1. They don't know that the Institute is compose of C.I.T. Survivors, they have knowledge of them.2. Most importantly, Fallout 4 made it abundantly clear that they would still need to use molecular relay to easily reach them. That or they would have to do a massive expedition project under the ruins of C.I.T. Just to have a chance at finding them.Vault 87 is located in the Capital Wasteland, not the Commonwealth. It would be up to the OP if they are allowed to travel to the Capital Wasteland for that.It been super long since I last played Fallout 3, but I thought that you went to vault 87 to get the G.E.C.K.
And not the modified FEV, which hasn't even been invented in 2227. Could be wrong though.Yeah, an altruistic BoS compose of mostly new untrain and unskilled recruits, spread thin throughout the Capital Wasteland, with poorly maintain prewar weapons, and at an internal civil war with veteran deserters, had trouble with the Enclave remnant. The BoS in Fallout 4 on the other hand isn't hinder by the problems that the BoS in Fallout 3 did.
In fact I would argue that the BoS in Fallout 4 is the best the BoS has ever been in any Fallout game (don't know about 76 since I never played it). They are developing new weapons and armor rather than just hoarding pre-war ones, they get a constant supply of skilled recruits due to the sponsored program, and while they are nowhere near as nice as the BoS were under Lyon, they are still far more altruistic than the BoS were during 1 and 2 so they would be at least somewhat supported by the citizens of the Capital Wasteland. Click to expand.I would speculate that Enclave would be able to figure out that the Institute, being made out of the remnants of the CIT, is located unerneath the CIT building in its old facilities. If they can't do that, then it certainly would be within the Enclave's military and scientific capabilities to do the same thing that the Railroad did in Fallout 4 - capture a Courser chip and decode it, followed by triangulating the source of the Classical Music Station to figure out the source.And digging through a few meters of dirt is hardly a 'massive expedition'. With a handful of slaves the Enclave would be able to pull it off in one day.
And if the Institute were to try and disrupt them from doing it, I'm betting my money on the Enclave being more than capable of beating the crap out of any Synth Army the Institute could throw at them. Click to expand.FEV was originally a pre-war developed virus, that was researched at West-Tek and Mariposa, and later, moved to Vault 87. The Enclave recovered samples of it from the ruins of Mariposa, and the US Chemical Corps altered it into an airborne plague. Stands to figure that they would be able to do the same with FEV samples recovered from Vault 87, especially seeing how it's what Eden outright gives you in Fallout 3 (the loss of the oil rig prevented the Enclave from effective distribution, Eden having to rely on the virus being spread via water rather than jetstream).Granted, it's up to the OP if the Enclave is allowed to travel to the Capital Wasteland. But they are certainly capable of doing such a trip, as evidenced by their trek through the entirety of the mainland US coast to coast, and the presence of Vertibird as far from the Oil Rig as Las Vegas - a flight from Boston to Washington would be roughly the same distance, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, an altruistic BoS compose of mostly new untrain and unskilled recruits, spread thin throughout the Capital Wasteland, with poorly maintain prewar weapons, and at an internal civil war with veteran deserters, had trouble with the Enclave remnant. The BoS in Fallout 4 on the other hand isn't hinder by the problems that the BoS in Fallout 3 did. In fact I would argue that the BoS in Fallout 4 is the best the BoS has ever been in any Fallout game (don't know about 76 since I never played it). They are developing new weapons and armor rather than just hoarding pre-war ones, they get a constant supply of skilled recruits due to the sponsored program, and while they are nowhere near as nice as the BoS were under Lyon, they are still far more altruistic than the BoS were during 1 and 2 so they would be at least somewhat supported by the citizens of the Capital Wasteland. Click to expand.I concur with the incarnation of BoS in Fallout 4 being very good (second only to Fallout 1, but making perfect in-universe sense about having changed from that initial incarnation), but I would disagree that they would stand a chance in a straight-out fight.
Even if they aren't hindered by the problems of Fallout 3 (lack of recruits, constant fighting with Super Mutants, loss of troops by defectors to the Outcasts), that still would in no way make up for the sheer power-level difference between the two, seeing how even the original BoS in the West Coast before the war with NCR was under no illusions about being able to stand up to the Enclave, and the NCR too needed Brotherhood help to take out as little as Camp Navarro.Also, developing new weapons and armor? Wasn't that just gameplay rather than lore, with the T-60s being described as pre-war tech that was only introduced among troops in the interior (and salvaged by the Brotherhood) rather than being shipped to the frontlines in China? Admittedly, there's no mention of it in Fallout 2, but in Fallout 3 they most certainly have, and there is no reason to believe they were incapable of using what they had in Fallout 3 at the time of Fallout 2.
Their communication network with any mainland facilities they hypothetically may need is certainly on-line, as evidenced by the Raven Rock activation call, as well as Gecko Power Plant communications with the oil rig.' Deep' is relative here; Liberty Prime managed to dig it's way into the Institute in a manner of seconds, revealing that the upper levels of the Institute are barely a couple meters underneath the ground. I would speculate that mini-nukes and/or orbital missiles would be able to penetrate that.I would speculate that Enclave would be able to figure out that the Institute, being made out of the remnants of the CIT, is located unerneath the CIT building in its old facilities. If they can't do that, then it certainly would be within the Enclave's military and scientific capabilities to do the same thing that the Railroad did in Fallout 4 - capture a Courser chip and decode it, followed by triangulating the source of the Classical Music Station to figure out the source.And digging through a few meters of dirt is hardly a 'massive expedition'. With a handful of slaves the Enclave would be able to pull it off in one day. And if the Institute were to try and disrupt them from doing it, I'm betting my money on the Enclave being more than capable of beating the crap out of any Synth Army the Institute could throw at them.FEV was originally a pre-war developed virus, that was researched at West-Tek and Mariposa, and later, moved to Vault 87. The Enclave recovered samples of it from the ruins of Mariposa, and the US Chemical Corps altered it into an airborne plague.
Stands to figure that they would be able to do the same with FEV samples recovered from Vault 87, especially seeing how it's what Eden outright gives you in Fallout 3 (the loss of the oil rig prevented the Enclave from effective distribution, Eden having to rely on the virus being spread via water rather than jetstream).Granted, it's up to the OP if the Enclave is allowed to travel to the Capital Wasteland. But they are certainly capable of doing such a trip, as evidenced by their trek through the entirety of the mainland US coast to coast, and the presence of Vertibird as far from the Oil Rig as Las Vegas - a flight from Boston to Washington would be roughly the same distance, if I'm not mistaken.I concur with the incarnation of BoS in Fallout 4 being very good (second only to Fallout 1, but making perfect in-universe sense about having changed from that initial incarnation), but I would disagree that they would stand a chance in a straight-out fight. Even if they aren't hindered by the problems of Fallout 3 (lack of recruits, constant fighting with Super Mutants, loss of troops by defectors to the Outcasts), that still would in no way make up for the sheer power-level difference between the two, seeing how even the original BoS in the West Coast before the war with NCR was under no illusions about being able to stand up to the Enclave, and the NCR too needed Brotherhood help to take out as little as Camp Navarro.Also, developing new weapons and armor? Wasn't that just gameplay rather than lore, with the T-60s being described as pre-war tech that was only introduced among troops in the interior (and salvaged by the Brotherhood) rather than being shipped to the frontlines in China?
Click to expand.Don't know about developing, but they do produce their current gear and showed ability to improve upon Prewar designs. Prydwen was a newly made airship and they actually revised the blueprint of Liberty Prime, to the point the previous hydraulic actuator system was no longer sufficient, so they replaced it with electromagnetic actuator.They also showed ability to setup new staging area with at least some production capability, as LP's new systems were made in their Commonwealth base.That said, we have little info on what and how many improvements were made, so it's kind of useless beyond a vague 'better than before'. I still expect them to be worse than Enclave in most things, but have some unique advantages here and there.As an example: T-61 is still not APA level in defense, but now have jump jet capability. Click to expand.i don't know about fallout 2 but in fallout 3 enclave soldiers (mostly officers) often times travel the surface alongside armored units. And if thats the case it wouldnt be to hard to get a infiltrator.onto the scenario the institute curb stomps.unlike the brotherhood who had a field to prevent synths from teleporting onto the Prydwyen the Enclave can either be swarmed by a seemingly endless swarm synths who can be transported directly into their base or they can go for the more subtle route and use a synth infiltrator to activate the self destruct mechanism.after the base is gone the Enclave either retreats or gets picked off by everyone in the commonwealth just like the brotherhood.
I don't know about fallout 2 but in fallout 3 enclave soldiers (mostly officers) often times travel the surface alongside armored units. And if thats the case it wouldnt be to hard to get a infiltrator.onto the scenario the institute curb stomps.unlike the brotherhood who had a field to prevent synths from teleporting onto the Prydwyen the Enclave can either be swarmed by a seemingly endless swarm synths who can be transported directly into their base or they can go for the more subtle route and use a synth infiltrator to activate the self destruct mechanism.after the base is gone the Enclave either retreats or gets picked off by everyone in the commonwealth just like the brotherhood. Scenario 1: The Commonwealth gets taken over easily. The only real threat is the Minutemen who at best would slow them down.Scenario 2: While the Enclave still have a chance it's diminished significantly.
There's isn't much stopping the Institute from easily infiltrating the Enclave and paranoia and unrest would go a long way in greatly weakening them. This isn't to mention an incoming BoS who at this point is extremely unified, well supplied in both men and weapon, who also have a flight advantage. And they would no doubt send in reinforcements once they realized that not only is the Institute there, but their mortal enemies as well.It's been awhile since I played Fallout 2, but I don't recall the Enclave in Fallout 2 have orbital bombardment.
Beside there's no indication that carpet bombing them wouldn't even work.They are located deep beneath the C.I.T. Ruins and the only reason you were able to blow up their base was because you blew up their Nuclear Reactor from within.Furthermore, it doesn't matter if the Enclave knew where the pre-war CIT was located because1. They don't know that the Institute is compose of C.I.T.
Survivors, they have knowledge of them.2. Most importantly, Fallout 4 made it abundantly clear that they would still need to use molecular relay to easily reach them.
That or they would have to do a massive expedition project under the ruins of C.I.T. Just to have a chance at finding them.Vault 87 is located in the Capital Wasteland, not the Commonwealth. It would be up to the OP if they are allowed to travel to the Capital Wasteland for that.It been super long since I last played Fallout 3, but I thought that you went to vault 87 to get the G.E.C.K.
And not the modified FEV, which hasn't even been invented in 2227. Could be wrong though.Yeah, an altruistic BoS compose of mostly new untrain and unskilled recruits, spread thin throughout the Capital Wasteland, with poorly maintain prewar weapons, and at an internal civil war with veteran deserters, had trouble with the Enclave remnant. The BoS in Fallout 4 on the other hand isn't hinder by the problems that the BoS in Fallout 3 did. In fact I would argue that the BoS in Fallout 4 is the best the BoS has ever been in any Fallout game (don't know about 76 since I never played it). They are developing new weapons and armor rather than just hoarding pre-war ones, they get a constant supply of skilled recruits due to the sponsored program, and while they are nowhere near as nice as the BoS were under Lyon, they are still far more altruistic than the BoS were during 1 and 2 so they would be at least somewhat supported by the citizens of the Capital Wasteland.
Click to expand.Not in Camp Navarro they don't, where plenty grunts and grease monkeys wear combat armour and leather armour. In Fallout 3, Enclave outposts commonly have officers and scientists who also only wear their uniforms and science outfits.Not that it would give anyone an advantage over them, because these guys are always accompanied by trained soldiers clad in Advanced Power Armor, packing at least plasma rifles, if not outright Pulse Rifles or M72 Gauss Rifles.
The Institute is unlikely to be able to score victories against such foes, not unless they'd have a tremendous numerical and firepower advantage, one that would most likely be a pyrrhic victory for them. The Brotherhood may have more successes with their heavy weapons and powered armour, but in case of open conflict between the BoS and Enclave, I'd be surprised if the Enclave didn't just send a couple of their Vertibirds to mininuke the Prydwen into oblivion to take the Brotherhood down a few notches, forcing them into either retreat to the Capital Wasteland or hanging around a bit as high-tech raiders/minutemen.And Horrigan remains part of the Secret Service. He is likely to be sent around on various missions doing whatever wet work that needs to be done to further the Enclave's plans.
Such as going after Coursers, seeing how he is enough of a badass killing machine, he literally laughs of plasma rifle fire shot at him. 'Deep' is relative here; Liberty Prime managed to dig it's way into the Institute in a manner of seconds, revealing that the upper levels of the Institute are barely a couple meters underneath the ground. I would speculate that mini-nukes and/or orbital missiles would be able to penetrate that.And digging through a few meters of dirt is hardly a 'massive expedition'. With a handful of slaves the Enclave would be able to pull it off in one day. And if the Institute were to try and disrupt them from doing it, I'm betting my money on the Enclave being more than capable of beating the crap out of any Synth Army the Institute could throw at them. Click to expand.What?
The Institute quite easily infiltrated the 'backwater wasteland'. Their first infiltration of Diamond City was a complete success, nobody even knew that a synth was among them until it was too late. It wasn't until after that where people start getting paranoid over synths and even then they couldn't even tell that their own mayor was a synth. It's made pretty clear that it's almost impossible to tell the difference between a synth and the original unless you kill them and recover their synth component.
Hell even the BoS were paranoid that the they been infiltrated by a synth, and seeing as how a synth (even if he wasn't affiliated with the Institute) manage to become a paladin, their paranoia was well placed. I wouldn't say they far outstripped them, but yes the Enclave should still be technologically more advance than the BoS in every area except for air vehicles.In scenario 2, there's really no reason to believe that BoS wouldn't have secured the airbase or destroyed it all together after the events of 3. They could be use it in scenario 1, but they wouldn't really need it.Fair point. I forgot about that part of the BoS quest.Except the Enclave doesn't know that the Institute is composed of C.I.T. Survivors, for all they know the C.I.T. Is long dead. Even if they do figure out that the C.I.T.
Still existed, that doesn't guarantee that they would be able to find them. The BoS was also tipped off that the Institute was located under the C.I.T. Ruins, but abandon that thought due to not being able to find them.Meant to say military technology in general rather than just weapon and armor, my bad.But as Riverlia pointed out, improvements of weapons and armor were also made by the eastern chapter of the BoS.What? The Institute quite easily infiltrated the 'backwater wasteland'. Their first infiltration of Diamond City was a complete success, nobody even knew that a synth was among them until it was too late. It wasn't until after that where people start getting paranoid over synths and even then they couldn't even tell that their own mayor was a synth.
It's made pretty clear that it's almost impossible to tell the difference between a synth and the original unless you kill them and recover their synth component. Hell even the BoS were paranoid that the they been infiltrated by a synth, and seeing as how a synth (even if he wasn't affiliated with the Institute) manage to become a paladin, their paranoia was well placed.
Click to expand.Unknown, though logically I'm inclined to say FO3 Enclave has better armor.The bonker in-game number aside, FO3 Enclave was actively developing new armor (Hellfire). As a lot of their force was former West Coast Enclave, there's no way they don't have APA as blueprint, so the idea that they 'developed backward' doesn't make much sense.That said, it's possible that they lost the blueprint of APA Mk.II, which was only starting to be produced a short while before Enclave was defeat in 2, and thus redeveloped a new APA Mk.II (ala the normal Enclave PA in Fo3) which might or might not be worse than original Mk.II.
This is speculation only though.
111111111FALLOUT 2 STUPID GUIDE v 1.0CONTENTS:-1.Introduction2.PlaythroughA.Character CreationB.Walkthrough3.Contact4.Special Thanks5.Bibliography6.Legal Notes7.Version History1.INTRODUCTION:-Playing Stupid in Fallout 2 means having an Intelligence lower than 4.So,what's the difference? First,the dialogue options are very limited,people won't give you many quests. Second, you can recruit only a few NPCs:Sulik, Vic, Goris, K-9, Dogmeat (but don't bother with the last two).Third, you can't obtain some locations, like Toxic Caves or Sierra Army Depot.Surely, you can chew Mentats to raise INT by 2 and enable the normal dialogueoptions but this must be done only when absolutely necessary (you really wantmore NPCs, or the car, or Bonus Rate of Fire Perk).That being said you'll level very slowly and with few Skill Points and as youcan't talk away various dangers the battles can be very difficult.So what can be done?
The answer is to farm encounters around every cityin World Map until you're happy with your level.Note that the game will be easier/harder if you want to steal alot or not (savefirst).So why should you want to play Stupid? Well,it's a different game, less talkand more fight. But,in the first place, the dialogues are very hilarious.Finally, please note that SPOILERS abound. Anyway, obviously, I don't recommendthis guide for first time players.2.PLAYTHROUGH:-A.Character CreationPrimary Stats (SPECIAL):-Strength -6- to be able to use the Gauss Rifle from New California Republic.-Perception -8- you need at least 6 for the Better Criticals Perk.-Endurance -4- it's enough for the Hit Points-Charisma -4- will do for Sulik and Vic. Chew one Mentat to take Goris if youhave Mason's mirrored glasses.-Intelligence -3- to get at least a few skill points when levelling-Agility -10- a must like in any game.
Means 2 targeted shots in the eyesper turn with the Magnum revolver or with almost any gun after Bonus Rateof Fire.-Luck -6- required for the Better Criticals Perk.Traits:You can't take the widely known Gifted, as the loss of 5 Skill Points perlevel is too much at 3 Intelligence. And you don't need so many Primary Skillpoints. So it will be:-Small Frame, for the extra Agility point.-Sex Appeal, LOL, really it's not any other good Trait to take.Secondary Skills:-Small Guns, you'll use this from the beginning to the end.-Doctor, to cure those crippled limbs.-Energy Weapons (replaces the 'must have' Speech), to save that Tag!
Perk atLevel 12.Perks:-Level 3- Awareness, duh-Level 6- Bonus Move, will come in handy to close for aiming the eyes better-Level 9- Better Criticals, duh-Level 12- Action Boy-Level 15- Bonus Rate of Fire.
How do you lose a damned item, anyway?Well, you might not realise the significance of the item at first. You might put it in storage and then forget where. You might, even more prosaically, hit the wrong button and sell it or drop it without noticing. In NV, you might even (as happened to me) store it in a Lucky 38 container that then proceeds to swallow its contents. Making quest items losable like everything else is just a recipe to frustrate an unlucky minority.agree that quest items add unescessary inventory clutter, but would suggest they just be given their own tab on the inventory screen (crafting items too). And make them weightless, if they aren't already.Posts: 3436 Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:02 am. Wow, I'm the only person to vote 'no'.
Oh well.Well, you might not realise the significance of the item at first. You might put it in storage and then forget where. You might, even more prosaically, hit the wrong button and sell it or drop it without noticing. In NV, you might even (as happened to me) store it in a Lucky 38 container that then proceeds to swallow its contents. Making quest items losable like everything else is just a recipe to frustrate an unlucky minority.This is where item descriptions can really help.
Did anyone seriously think the tanker FOB in Fallout 2 for instance wasn't significant even if you hadn't yet gotten the quest to retrieve it? It is possible to make these things clear without coddling players with undroppable quest items. Although the respawning containers in the newer Fallouts are strange to me.
That should be changed. Merchants should also hold on to quest items you may sell so you can buy them back if you sold them (but you should be prepared for a steep climb in price). I agree that quest items add unescessary inventory clutter, but would suggest they just be given their own tab on the inventory screen (crafting items too). And make them weightless, if they aren't already.Their own screen is fine but quest items shouldn't necessarily be weightless unless it makes sense for the item to not really weigh anything (like a keycard for example). What if the quest item is a huge boulder (real quest in a great RPG). Should a slight scientist guy just be able to haul it off with no problems on top of everything else he's carrying because it's needed for a quest?It's more player coddling. Gamers were, and I believe still are better than that.
If a quest item is heavy be prepared to haul it as you would for anything else.Posts: 3352 Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:29 pm. If it could be guaranteed that Fallout 4's containers will never swallow or respawn their contents at a whim, then I might be okay with being able to drop quest items (provided a suitably updated quest marker).
But given that Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3 all had this problem in one form or another, I'm not brimming with confidence we've seen the back of it, even with the new Skyrim engine.That said, I'm still not convinced that the small amount of 'player coddling' isn't worth it, just to avoid a scenario where a player is forced to track back thirty or forty hours of game-time because they've been unlucky enough to lose something important. In such a scenario, I'm proably not going to start all over again, but just abandon the game in indignant fury. Their own screen is fine but quest items shouldn't necessarily be weightless unless it makes sense for the item to not really weigh anything (like a keycard for example). What if the quest item is a huge boulder (real quest in a great RPG). Should a slight scientist guy just be able to haul it off with no problems on top of everything else he's carrying because it's needed for a quest?That's fine, when you're talking about side-quests that can be ignored or not as the player sees fit.
But not for items that are forced on the player in the main quest. We learnt this lesson already with 50lb Dwemer Coherers in Morrowind.I don't see it so much as a question of player coddling, but rather of eliminating unnescessary sources of frustration.Posts: 3503 Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:57 pm.
That said, I'm still not convinced that the small amount of 'player coddling' isn't worth it, just to avoid a scenario where a player is forced to track back thirty or forty hours of game-time because they've been unlucky enough to lose something important. In such a scenario, I'm proably not going to start all over again, but just abandon the game in indignant fury.Like I said an important quest item should be pretty clearly indicated as being both unique and significant. You could also make any items needed for the completion of the main quest (if any were required at all) maybe be the object of the main quest. When you retrieved the water chip in Fallout 1 was anyone really going to drop it? That's fine, when you're talking about side-quests that can be ignored or not as the player sees fit. But not for items that are forced on the player in the main quest.
Fallout 2 Tanker Fob Replacement
We learnt this lesson already with 50lb Dwemer Coherers in Morrowind.I don't see it so much as a question of player coddling, but rather of eliminating unnescessary sources of frustration.Which is just a different perspective on where you draw the line. I can respect that. I know people who think automapping was coddling. Can't say I agree with that for instance since the game is just helping you complete a process that would otherwise be tedious and annoying and shouldn't be required to play the game.
It's when eliminating unnecessary sources of frustration starts unreasonably limiting what players can do within the game that I start getting annoyed. Unkillable NPCs are another good example of what I would consider coddling.Posts: 3331 Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:05 pm.
Like I said an important quest item should be pretty clearly indicated as being both unique and significant. You could also make any items needed for the completion of the main quest (if any were required at all) maybe be the object of the main quest. When you retrieved the water chip in Fallout 1 was anyone really going to drop it?Yeah, I think this is probably key. I think that important, MQ-related items should be flagged up as such before you can acquire them. There's no danger of anyone dropping the water chip, because it's made clear from the outset that it's what you're searching for. Where problems might arise is when a quest-important item can be found long before the relevant quest is actually given.
I'm thinking, for example, of the various Mcguffins needed for the BoS in NV, which are just sitting around in the Mojave's vaults even if you've never met the BoS. When I found the HEPA filters (or whatever), I figured I'd best hang onto them, but that's because I've played enough of these games to recognise an important-sounding item when I see it. But someone who's not as versed in the mores of RPGs might, in a game as full of seemingly pointless clutter as NV, just take them to be another piece of pointless clutter to be filed alongside finance clipboards and steam gauage assemblies.(Incedentally, that's not an attack on pointless clutter, the games wouldn't be the same without them.).
Which is just a different perspective on where you draw the line. I can respect that. I know people who think automapping was coddling. Can't say I agree with that for instance since the game is just helping you complete a process that would otherwise be tedious and annoying and shouldn't be required to play the game. It's when eliminating unnecessary sources of frustration starts unreasonably limiting what players can do within the game that I start getting annoyed. Unkillable NPCs are another good example of what I would consider coddling.Yeah, for me I think excessive inventory micromanagement comes under the 'tedious and annoying processes that shouldn't be required to play the game' banner.
(Needless to say I'm not sold on hardcoe mode.) I agree on unkillable NPCs though, for sure (though equally from a writer/game designer's point of view, I can understand their attraction). The magic quest compass, at least in its crudest form, I would suggest as another example of excessive player coddling, but I'm sure not everyone will agree with that either.Posts: 3557 Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:15 am. The way I see it, the most important thing is better inventory management.
When the undroppable quest items really start to make me notice them is while I'm trying to sort out all of my tons of equipment, and find out where all that extra weight is coming from. I've got into the habit in Fallout 3/NV where I'm routinely heading back to my current base of operations to sort every bit of inventory into various containers so that I can get rid of all the excess stuff I've been lugging around. It's often not until then that I realize that a third of my weight limit was being taken up with Aid items that I wasn't using, for example, or (in the case of hardcoe Mode) ammo for weapons I wasn't carrying around with me any more.
You get so many varieties of these sorts of items that it can be a real pain (to me, at least) to get a sense of just how much you have on you at any given time.Weapons and apparel, for example - I'm usually only carrying so many (and they individually weigh so much) that it's easier for me to get a sense of how much 'room' they're taking up. For example, if I'm carrying 50 pounds worth of weapons - that's usually a lot easier to see than if I had 50 pounds of Brahmin Steaks, Squirrel Meat, and various other food items. So far starters - just a way to sort through inventory in more detail would be a big help.As far as actual Quest Items go - I'm rather of two minds about this.
On the one hand, I don't want to have to be lugging around a bunch of stuff that I know I'm not going to be able to use for a good long time. But I also don't want to have to worry about forgetting I ever had them in the first place - much less where I'd put them. I don't necessarily want the game to be 'coddling' me, but I also don't want to be frustrated by a stupid mistake like that.I do see a couple of possible solutions, however. For starters, I don't foresee all that much of a problem with having a prompt come up before discarding or selling any Quest Items. At least that way, you wouldn't have any excuse for not knowing that a particular item was going to be tied to a quest later on. (Or with all the items you tend to sort through in this game - accidentally dropping it along with a bunch of other stuff you took for junk.)The other thing would be making sure that the game never 'lost' your item, no matter where you put it. I know that's kind of a constant problem with items in general, but you've got to figure at the very least, a Quest Item ought to have top priority when it comes to the game keeping track of it.Finally, as a last resort - your companions could provide a useful last resort for dire situations.
Malayalam movies 2014 download. Let's say I'd found a particular Quest Item well before I came upon the actual quest, and had long ago stuffed it in the back of some cupboard somewhere, for 'safe keeping.' Failing the game being able to remember where you'd put (much less me, as a player,) and to save me the potential hours of trying to track down one specific item once again, maybe at the very least the game could remember that I'd at least found the thing in the first place. That way, say I hit a dead end where I really need that item, then whatever companion I had with me could say something along the lines of 'hey, is this what you're looking for?
I remember you dropping it a while back, but I figured I'd better hang onto it, just in case.' I don't particularly like the idea of the game totally barring me from being able to do something because of a stupid mistake like that. I'm all about choice and consequences - but for something like that, I think possibly the stake are a bit too high.
Completely being unable to continue a quest (failing it, effectively,) is, I feel, too high a consequence for something as small as accidentally dropping or selling one specific item. I don't want to have to be lugging it around for the whole game - but I also would want the 'penalty' for losing it to be in proportion to the scale of my action.Posts: 3322 Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:20 pm.